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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">[Stephane and I have been considering a proposal to add some degree of caching into the pipeline which would handle exactly the kind of situation where certain
arrays could be passed through without the need for portions of the pipeline to reexecute.] (I’d like to see RequestData broken into smaller RequestScalar/RequestMesh type requests too, by the way)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">However, your description of changes (which I basically approve of, subject to solving the issue of filters changing type based on input type the Dave pointed
out) hints at a more contract based approach to updating the pipeline and if we’re going to go down this path, I think we need to completely reconsider how extents are handled. Piece updates and extent based updates are (in my opinion) a bit shoddy and temperamental
and the RequestUpdataExtent doesn’t well (or at all) handle geometric extents (as opposed to structured extents or pieces). Also, the streaming improvements that Dave has been adding look marvellous, but appear to be somewhat orthogonal to the rest of the
update mechanism and I’d it be nice to see these changes as part of a broader look at improving the handling of load balancing and extent handling within the entire executive framework –a more unified way.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think I got a bit off topic there. Sorry<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">JB<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> paraview-bounces@paraview.org [mailto:paraview-bounces@paraview.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Utkarsh Ayachit<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 08 June 2011 14:50<br>
<b>To:</b> Stephane PLOIX<br>
<b>Cc:</b> paraview@paraview.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Paraview] Concept: A world without the Apply button<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Stephane,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Yes, that'd indeed be a path forward, but like you alluded to, it would need a planning of its own especially adding support to the executive, being smart about when to re-execute, and even possibly, cache arrays.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Utkarsh<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Stephane PLOIX <<a href="mailto:stephane.ploix@edf.fr">stephane.ploix@edf.fr</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Hi Utkarsh,</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">If we want to push the demand-driven logic to the end, choosing the arrays to load could be implicit on the readers : they will depend on the arrays needed down the pipeline.</span>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">The obvious drawback of this approach is that having several arrays availbale for the representation to color by is very handy, instead of re-executing the whole pipeline each time you change the
array to color by, but this demand-driven logic could help when memory is limited.</span>
<br>
<br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Best,</span> <br>
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Stephane<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#FF8100">Stephane PLOIX<br>
Pilote Opérationnel - Visualisation scientifique</span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0062E1"><br>
EDF - R&D<br>
SINETICS<br>
1, Av du Général de Gaulle<br>
92140 Clamart<br>
</span><br>
<b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0062E1"><a href="mailto:stephane.ploix@edf.fr" target="_blank">stephane.ploix@edf.fr</a></span></b>
<br>
<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#0062E1">Tél. : +33 (0) 1 47 65 51 10</span>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:utkarsh.ayachit@kitware.com" target="_blank">utkarsh.ayachit@kitware.com</a></span></b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">
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<span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Envoyé par : <a href="mailto:paraview-bounces@paraview.org" target="_blank">
paraview-bounces@paraview.org</a></span> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">07/06/2011 19:44</span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:samuelkey@bresnan.net" target="_blank">samuelkey@bresnan.net</a></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="mailto:paraview@paraview.org" target="_blank">paraview@paraview.org</a></span>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Re: [Paraview] Concept: A world without the Apply button</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Sam,</span></tt><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New""><br>
<br>
<tt>Please note that this proposal does not preclude the user from</tt><br>
<tt>choosing which array to load from the reader's properties panel. That</tt><br>
<tt>indeed will be supported. This proposal in fact allows you go back the</tt><br>
<tt>reader change it's array selection, and then go the properties panel</tt><br>
<tt>for a contour filter connected downstream (for example) and choose the</tt><br>
<tt>array to contour by as the newly selected array without having to</tt><br>
<tt>execute any of the reader/intermediate filters until you have setup</tt><br>
<tt>the full pipeline. After which, you hit "Execute". That's when the</tt><br>
<tt>reader will actually read the data. Currently, before you can choose</tt><br>
<tt>the array to contour with, you have to hit "Apply" so that the reader</tt><br>
<tt>will produce the newly selected array. Then alone will it be reflected</tt><br>
<tt>on the contour panel.</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Also, changing parameters on filters will have no immediate effect per</tt><br>
<tt>say. The new proposal is not simply "auto-apply". You have to hit</tt><br>
<tt>"Execute" before the filters will be executed, so you can tweak</tt><br>
<tt>parameters to your hearts contents before triggering any execution</tt><br>
<tt>(similar to the Apply mechanism).</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>Utkarsh</tt><br>
<br>
<tt>On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 1:31 PM, Samuel Key <<a href="mailto:samuelkey@bresnan.net" target="_blank">samuelkey@bresnan.net</a>> wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>> All--</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Technical reasons aside, my own simulation efforts (software that relies on</tt><br>
<tt>> ParaView for post-processing) span a great variety of solid and structural</tt><br>
<tt>> mechanics applications. The software is not a single-formulation,</tt><br>
<tt>> single-solution, one-off problem solver.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Put briefly, I find the "Apply" button exceptionally useful.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> The EnSight-formatted results files produced contain a surfeit (excess) of</tt><br>
<tt>> simulation results for any one application. I use the "Apply" button on</tt><br>
<tt>> loading results files for several purposes:</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> 1) Load only results that are most useful to the current problem or</tt><br>
<tt>> application.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> 2) Limit the results I examine to those relevant to the phase st hand:</tt><br>
<tt>> i) Phase 1. Are the results OK (BC's OK? Energy Balance OK? Loading OK?)</tt><br>
<tt>> ii) Phase 2. Which result describes the response most effectively?</tt><br>
<tt>> iii) Phase 3. Presentation animations and figures for communicating.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> 3) Frequent tuning of various filters to refine the display of the results</tt><br>
<tt>> being studied.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> 4) Last but not least, limit the results being examined at any one session</tt><br>
<tt>> to avoid the MS O/S crashing PV because of the MS O/S limits on resources</tt><br>
<tt>> usable.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Thanks for the opportunity to express my support for ParaView and its</tt><br>
<tt>> exceptional versatility and effectiveness as a post-processing tool.</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> Sam Key</tt><br>
<tt>></tt><br>
<tt>> On 6/7/2011 8:56 AM, Moreland, Kenneth wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> One thing that strikes me about this proposal, is that it relies a lot on</tt><br>
<tt>>> VTK readers/filters providing the necessary meta data, particularly about</tt><br>
<tt>>> fields. For example, the elevation filter would have to report in its</tt><br>
<tt>>> meta data that it will be adding a scalar field named Elevation. That</tt><br>
<tt>>> sounds easy enough to implement, but would have to be independently added</tt><br>
<tt>>> for all readers/filters. This would be especially problematic for</tt><br>
<tt>>> user-provided plugins.</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> Is there a way to mitigate the issues with the meta data mismatching what</tt><br>
<tt>>> is actually generated? Perhaps there could be a check to make sure that</tt><br>
<tt>>> the data generated matches the meta data previously reported and issue a</tt><br>
<tt>>> warning if there are any mismatches. This would not solve the problem per</tt><br>
<tt>>> se, but would quickly alert developers to problems and make it easier to</tt><br>
<tt>>> debug.</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> -Ken</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> **** Kenneth Moreland</tt><br>
<tt>>> *** Sandia National Laboratories</tt><br>
<tt>>> ***********</tt><br>
<tt>>> *** *** *** email: <a href="mailto:kmorel@sandia.gov" target="_blank">kmorel@sandia.gov</a></tt><br>
<tt>>> ** *** ** phone: <a href="tel:%28505%29%20844-8919" target="_blank">(505) 844-8919</a></tt><br>
<tt>>> *** web: <a href="http://www.cs.unm.edu/~kmorel" target="_blank">
http://www.cs.unm.edu/~kmorel</a></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> On 6/1/11 1:30 PM, "Utkarsh Ayachit"<<a href="mailto:utkarsh.ayachit@kitware.com" target="_blank">utkarsh.ayachit@kitware.com</a>> wrote:</tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Folks,</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> I have been investigating the ability to create pipelines in ParaView</tt><br>
<tt>>>> without having to hit Apply at every single stage in the pipeline.</tt><br>
<tt>>>> This would make it much easier to deal with really large data in a</tt><br>
<tt>>>> usage scenario where the scientist is fairly familiar with the</tt><br>
<tt>>>> visualization pipeline he's interested in setting up.</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Following the recent changes to the ParaView ServerManager, the</tt><br>
<tt>>>> ServerManager level requirement that filters need to be updated before</tt><br>
<tt>>>> connecting has disappeared. However, we still need to "Apply" to get</tt><br>
<tt>>>> updated information about arrays etc.</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> After a couple on discussions with Berk and Dave, I've consolidated</tt><br>
<tt>>>> the thoughts on a Wiki page. If any one has any thoughts to share, it</tt><br>
<tt>>>> would be great.</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> <a href="http://www.paraview.org/ParaView3/index.php/No-Apply_Mechanism_for_Creatin" target="_blank">
http://www.paraview.org/ParaView3/index.php/No-Apply_Mechanism_for_Creatin</a></tt><br>
<tt>>>> g_Pipelines</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Note that this is merely a concept. We have no plans of implementing</tt><br>
<tt>>>> it in near future (3.12/4.0).</tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Utkarsh</tt><br>
<tt>>>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>>>> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a></tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at</tt><br>
<tt>>>> <a href="http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html" target="_blank">
http://www.kitware.com/opensource/opensource.html</a></tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ParaView Wiki at:</tt><br>
<tt>>>> <a href="http://paraview.org/Wiki/ParaView" target="_blank">http://paraview.org/Wiki/ParaView</a></tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>>> Follow this link to subscribe/unsubscribe:</tt><br>
<tt>>>> <a href="http://www.paraview.org/mailman/listinfo/paraview" target="_blank">
http://www.paraview.org/mailman/listinfo/paraview</a></tt><br>
<tt>>>></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> _______________________________________________</tt><br>
<tt>>> Powered by <a href="http://www.kitware.com" target="_blank">www.kitware.com</a></tt><br>
<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> Visit other Kitware open-source projects at</tt><br>
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<tt>>></tt><br>
<tt>>> Please keep messages on-topic and check the ParaView Wiki at:</tt><br>
<tt>>> <a href="http://paraview.org/Wiki/ParaView" target="_blank">http://paraview.org/Wiki/ParaView</a></tt><br>
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